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原創(chuàng)翻譯：龍騰網(wǎng) http://www. 翻譯：翻譯加工廠 轉(zhuǎn)載請注明出處 -------------譯者：668-審核者：janenet------------ BillyBattsShinebox 18 points·5 days ago Because Chinese doesn't use articles and because it's fine to say 'an American/a German/a Korean/an Italian'. Making sense of articles and demonyms is actually pretty annoying for people who aren't used to dealing with articles at all. 因為中國人不用冠詞，“一個美國人/一個德國人/一個韓國人/一個意大利人”這樣說是可以的。理解冠詞和特定稱謂詞的用法對根本不習慣使用冠詞的人來說太令人火大了。 monfreremonfrere 12 points·5 days ago Oh god now I realize I have no idea why “a Chinese” is wrong but “an American” is OK OK to say “I am a(n) __”： Korean American Italian German Russian Egyptian Indian Pakistani? Not OK: Chinese Japanese British Polish Vietnamese French Dutch I guess it just depends on the suffix? 哦，天哪，我才發(fā)覺我竟不知道為什么說“a Chinese”是錯誤的，而說“an American”是可以的。 這樣說是可以的：“I am a(n) __（我是一個）”：Korean（韓國人） 、American（美國人） 、Italian（意大利人）、German（德國人）、Russian（俄羅斯人）、Egyptian（埃及人）、Indian（印度人）、Pakistani（巴基斯坦人）。 這樣說不可以：（我是一個）Chinese（中國人）、Japanese（日本人）、British（英國人）、Polish（波蘭人）、Vietnamese（越南人）、French（法國人）、Dutch（荷蘭人）。 我想這取決于后綴？ ObsidianOrangutan 7 points·4 days ago·edited 4 days ago It's actually a cool thing about language in general. When people learn languages later in life they tend to simplify the grammar and over apply rules. By contrast when people learn languages young they internalize all the weird exceptions to rules and patterns. This is also why languages that are learned by a lot of people (like standard English and mandarin) are more regular than smaller languages. For example modern English dropped a lot of Anglo Saxon's additional tenses when the vikings invaded and settled because lots of adult Norse learned it. By contrast there's a language spoken by a tiny group of people in the arctic circle which has no rules for plurals every single noun is pluralised differently. Which you can only sustain with a small all native speaking population. (Most of this is cribbed from the great podcast Lexicon Valley though I may have misremebered some details.) edit: might be this episode I'm thinking of http://www./articles/podcasts/lexicon_valley/2017/09/do_languages_get_simpler_over_time.html 總的來說語言其實是件很酷的事。當人們在以后的生活中學習語言時，他們傾向于簡化語法，過度運用規(guī)則。相比之下，當人們在年幼時學習語言，他們就會內(nèi)化規(guī)則和模式中所有奇怪的例外。這也是為什么有很多人學習的語言（像標準英語和普通話）比小語種更有規(guī)律可循的原因。例如，當維京人（8到11世紀駕船劫掠北歐和西歐海岸的斯堪的納維亞人）入侵并定居下來時，現(xiàn)代英語就放棄了許多盎格魯·撒克遜語的附加時態(tài)，因為許多成年挪威人（古斯堪的納維亞人）學會了這一點。相比之下，在北極圈中的一小群人說的一種語言，沒有復數(shù)的規(guī)則，每個單數(shù)單詞的復數(shù)形式變化規(guī)則都不相同，只能靠一小群全部英語為母語的人來繼承它。（盡管我可能記錯了一些細節(jié)，大部分都是從播客詞匯谷抄來的。） 另注：我覺得這有可能就是我想到的那一集http://www./articles/podcasts/lexicon_valley/2017/09/do_languages_get_simpler_over_time.html GuessImStuckWithThis Great Britain 10 points·4 days ago There is actually no grammar rule that says it's wrong. It just instinctively sounds weird to a native speaker's ear however technically it's still grammatically correct 實際上沒有語法規(guī)則說這用法是錯誤的，只不過在英語為母語的人耳中本能會聽起來怪怪的，但嚴格來講，這仍舊是符合正確語法的。 shishiqiushi 5 points·4 days ago It's because Chinese is only ever an adjective but American can be a noun too. I think it comes down to the suffix -ese being typically used in adjectives. You cannot say 'a British' either because the ending -ish makes it an adjective. 這是因為Chinese只能是形容詞，而American也可以是名詞。我認為這歸結于后綴為-ese的詞通常為形容詞，你也不能說“a British”，因為后綴-ish使它變成一個形容詞了。 -------------譯者：驚詫八千座-審核者：janenet------------ GuessImStuckWithThis Great Britain8 points·4 days ago Nope. Chinese is used as a noun when you refer to the language. You don't say 'he speaks the Chinese language' you say 'he speaks Chinese'. 不是的。當你指中文這門語言時，“Chinese”被用作名詞。你不會說“他會漢語語言（the Chinese language）”，而是說“他會漢語”。 It's just that instinctively as a native speaker words that end in '-ese' or 'ish' or generally with an s sound seem like they should be adjectives because they just sound wrong as nouns. However it's more about usage rather than grammar. 這完全出于本能，作為一個母語者，那些以“-ese”或者“ish”結尾以及以“s”音結尾的單詞，它們看起來像是形容詞，但那只是因為它們聽起來不像是名詞。然而，相比于語法，更多的是其用法。 buz1984 4 points·4 days ago·edited 4 days ago The instinct is to distinguish between singular and plural. 'The Koreans' refers to a group of people and you drop the 's' to refer to one person. 'The Chinese' is plural but there is no 's' to drop so to make this singular you always add a singular noun such as 'person'. I don't know if this is formalized in grammar but it seems to be consistently applied by native speakers. 所謂的本能是為了區(qū)分單數(shù)和復數(shù)?！癟he Koreans”指一群人，去掉“s”則指代一個人。“The Chinese”是復數(shù)，但是它沒有“s”，所以為了表明單數(shù)，你經(jīng)常會加上一個單數(shù)名詞例如“person”。我不確定這在語法上是否是正式形式，但是母語者似乎常這樣應用。 pixelschatten 7 points·4 days ago [Oh god now I realize I have no idea why “a Chinese” is wrong but “an American” is OK] The sibilant final ending is the reason why you think it is incorrect.(鏈接補充說明——https://www./dialect/ethnonyms) However it is perfectly fine to say 'a Chinese' or 'a Japanese' or even 'a Swiss.' Here's a list of demonyms as taught by Cambridge if you need a source. https://dictionary./us/grammar/british-grammar/people-and-places/nationalities-languages-countries-and-regions [哦，天哪，我才發(fā)覺我竟不知道為什么說“a Chinese”是錯誤的，而說“an American”是可以的。] 單詞結尾發(fā)出的咝咝聲是你為什么覺得它不正確的原因。然而，說'a Chinese' 或者 'a Japanese' 甚至是 'a Swiss'是完全可以的。如果你需要來源的話，這是劍橋出的一份民族稱謂詞列表。（下為鏈接）(https://dictionary./us/grammar/british-grammar/people-and-places/nationalities-languages-countries-and-regions) monfreremonfrere 2 points·4 days ago·edited 3 days ago Very interesting! Your first lix appears to contradict the second lix regarding the grammaticality of “a Chinese” though 這非常有趣！雖然你的第一個鏈接和第二個鏈接，在關于“a Chinese”的語法性部分上相互矛盾。 pixelschatten 2 points·4 days ago I think the gist the linguist was trying to get across was that the perceived grammaticality of demonyms like 'a Chinese' for native speakers increases as one moves to reference larger groups. However that isn't to say the singular form is incorrect. 我認為語言學家想要傳達出的要點是，當用one去指代一個更大的群體時，對英語母語者來說，像用“a Chinese”來指代（一個中國人）的這種區(qū)域居民稱謂詞的語法性用法就會增加。然而，這并不是說單數(shù)形式（Chinese person）就是錯的。 I was able to find some recent examples of the singular form of -ese demonyms in the New York Times. It's difficult to narrow down 'a Chinese' due to the limitations of search and the popularity of China as a topic but I did find 'an ethnic Chinese' in these articles: [1] [2] [3]. 'a Japanese' yields this article. 'a Portuguese' can be found here. 我在《紐約時報》上找到了一些近期的關于-ese類區(qū)域居民稱謂詞的單數(shù)形式的例子。由于一些搜索的限制和“china”作為主題的干擾，很難縮小范圍來查找這類例子，但是我還是找到了如下例子： 這篇文章中出現(xiàn)的'an ethnic Chinese（一個華裔）' : [1] [2] [3]. 這篇文章中出現(xiàn)的'a Japanese（一個日本人）' ； 'a Portuguese（一個葡萄牙人）' 能在這篇文章中找到。 Somewhat older but I did find 'a Taiwanese' mentioned in these articles from the 90s: [1] [2]. And finally here's both 'a Swiss' AND 'a Japanese' in this article. 我在一些比較老的例如90年代的文章里有看到'a Taiwanese（一個臺灣人）'這樣的例子。最后這篇文章里既有'a Swiss（一個瑞士人）' 又有 'a Japanese'這兩個用法。 （原回復中有很多相關鏈接，感興趣自尋原網(wǎng)址） -------------譯者：H3CCH3-審核者：龍騰翻譯總管------------ xrukiye 2 points·4 days ago I’m not really a native speaker but I have a pretty high level and I never realized it’s wrong to say it. You opened my eyes 我其實不是一個母語者，但是我的水平相當高，且我從沒覺得那樣說是錯的，你真是大開我的眼界。 yijiujiu 1 point·4 days ago My theory is that it has to do with racism. Asian groups have been subject to racism, so placing an emphasis on them being a person (person focused language) is important. Kind of like the difference between 'jew' and 'Jewish person'. 我的理論是這肯定是跟種族主義有關。亞裔人群一直深受種族主義的影響，所以強調(diào)他們是什么人（用person看是哪門語言）很重要。有點像猶太人（jew）和猶太族人（jewish person）這兩種說法之間的差異。 TheGentlemanK 3 points·4 days ago To counter that a French, a Dutch and a Spanish all sound wrong to the ear as well without have the excuse of racism. 作為反駁，如果不以種族主義因素為由，“a French（一個法國人）”、“a Dutch（一個荷蘭人）”和“a Spanish（一個西班牙人）”全都聽起來怪怪的。 yijiujiu 1 point·4 days ago Yeah, my theory only goes so far. Probably the underlying sounds of the names 嗯，我的理論僅限于此。可能是這些稱謂詞的潛在發(fā)音吧。 monfreremonfrere 1 point·4 days ago Wouldn't this predict the opposite outcome? 'She is a Chinese' sounds more racist/impolite than 'She is a Chinese person'. 這不恰巧證明與之相反的觀點嗎？“她是個中國人（a Chinese）”聽起來比“她是個（a Chinese person）”更種族歧視／粗魯。 yijiujiu 1 point·4 days ago You're restating what I said. 'a Chinese' sounds racist, and racism is usually dehumanizing. 'a Chinese person' is less racist, just as 'jew' is seen as a derision, while 'Jewish person' is fine 你在重復我說的話，“a Chinese”聽起來種族歧視，且種族主義通常是反人性的。“a Chinese person”沒那么種族主義，就如“jew”被視為笑話（貶義用法），而“jewish person”就行。 monfreremonfrere 2 points·4 days ago Exactly. And yet Chinese people who learned English as a second language often say 'a Chinese' instead of 'a Chinese pe 沒錯。然而把英語作為第二語言學習的中國人常說“a Chinese”而不是“a Chinese person”。 yijiujiu 1 point·4 days ago Yeah, but as pointed out elsewhere, the logic makes sense 是，但就其他網(wǎng)友指出的一些方面，這個邏輯也有些道理。 ratsta 1 point·4 days ago Struck me as odd too but I started using it myself and now I'm comfortable with it. 我也覺得那種用法很奇怪，但在我自己也用過之后，我現(xiàn)在覺得這說法聽著挺舒服的。 metheviewer South Africa 0 points·5 days ago Probably the same place they learn ”colleague-er' 或許他們也是從那兒學會了“同事-兒（colleague-er）”這種用法。 123eyeball 6 points·4 days ago That's just 北京話 /s 那只是北京話。 -------------譯者：668-審核者：龍騰翻譯總管------------ Hautamaki Canada 6 points·4 days ago There is an actual grammar rule for this which sadly enough not even many English teachers know. The rule is this: if a nationality ends with a /s/ /z/ /sh/ /ch/ or soft /g/ (like the second g in garage) then it cannot be pluralized simply by adding an 's' or 'es' as other nationalities that end with vowel or other consonant sounds can. For example compare 'American-Americans' to 'French-Frenches'. We simply never say 'Frenches' or 'Englishes' or 'Japaneses' though we have no problem with 'Americans' or 'Germans' or 'Finns'. Now with European nationalities it's often the convention to just add 'men' or 'women' to the end; 'Frenchmen' 'Englishwomen' etc. But when it comes to Asian peoples this comes off as colonial and frankly a bit racist--we simply don't ever say 'Chinamen' anymore and even 'Englishmen' and 'Frenchwomen' and so on have sort of fallen more and more out of common usage over the years. 事實上這用法確實涉及一個語法規(guī)則，非常悲哀的是，有很多英語老師甚至都不知道這語法規(guī)則。 規(guī)則是這樣的：如果表示國家的稱謂詞是以/s/、/z/、/sh/、/ch/或輕音/g/（像garage第二個g的發(fā)音）結尾的，其復數(shù)形式不能像其他以元音音或其他輔音音結尾的國家稱謂詞那樣簡單地加個's' 或 'es'就行。舉個栗子，將'American-Americans' 與 'French-Frenches'進行比較，我們從來不會說'Frenches' 或 'Englishes' 或 'Japaneses' ，但我們覺得說'Americans' 或 'Germans' 或 'Finns（芬蘭人）'沒有任何語法問題。好了，歐洲各國的稱謂詞的（復數(shù)）慣例是在后面加上“men”或“women”：如'Frenchmen' 和'Englishwomen' 等。但當涉及到亞洲人時，這是殖民時期的產(chǎn)物，坦率地說，這確實有一點種族主義。我們不再說'Chinamen' ，甚至不會說 'Englishmen' 和 'Frenchwomen' 等。這些詞近年來越來越淡出人們的習慣用語了。 Now the consequence here is that since there is no good way to make a plural out of 'Chinese' we do not use 'Chinese' or 'Japanese' or 'Vietnamese' and so on as nouns--we use them only as adjectives (except when we're referring to the languages). 現(xiàn)在的結果是這樣的，因為沒有什么好的方式來表示'Chinese'的復數(shù)形式，且我們不用 'Chinese' or 'Japanese' or 'Vietnamese' 等作名詞，——所以我們只用它作形容詞（除了當這些詞指的是其國語言這種情況）。 Therefore when someone says 'As a Canadian' this is grammatically correct because 'Canadian' can serve as a noun meaning 'Canadian person'; but when someone says 'As a Chinese' this is grammatically incorrect because 'Chinese' can only be used as an adjective (or it could mean the language 'Chinese' but that would be equally wrong obviously) therefore the phrase is grammatically equivalent to 'As a happy' or 'As a tall'. That is why there's still a need to add a noun at the end 'As a Chinese person' or whatever in this phrase but there is no need to say 'As an American person' or any other nationality that can be easily pluralized and thus can be used as either a noun or an adjective. 因此，當有人說'As a Canadian（作為一個加拿大人）' ，這在語法上是正確的，因為'Canadian'作為名詞時意為“加拿大人（Canadian person）”。但當有人說'As a Chinese'，這在語法上是錯誤的，因為'Chinese'只能用作形容詞（或可以意為語言'中文' ，但這明顯也是錯誤的），所以，這個短語在語法上等同于'As a happy（作為一個高興的）' 或 'As a tall（作為一個高的）'這種用法，這就是為什么仍需要在它后面加一個名詞 'As a Chinese person' 或其他任何名詞，但是沒有必要說'As an American person'，或其他任何能簡單變?yōu)閺蛿?shù)這樣既可作名詞也可做形容詞的國家稱謂詞也跟'American'的用法一樣。 shinadoll 13 points·5 days ago·edited 4 days ago My guess is that was the same class where “have a rest” was introduced. 我想這用法出處跟說“have a rest”是一樣的。 oGsBumder 3 points·4 days ago Er… that phrase is pretty normal isn't it? At least it is here in the UK. 呃...這短語不是很常見嗎？至少在英國很常見。 ratsta 1 point·4 days ago Same here in Australia. After all this hard work studying I'm going to have a rest. 在澳大利亞也很常見。畢竟在這么努力學習后，我要休息一下（“have a rest”）。 yijiujiu 1 point·4 days ago Depends where you're from. They say 'have a (verb)' a lot when we might say 'take a (verb)' or some other phrase. Have a try have a look have a rest. They sound a little off though they appear fine. I guess if say 'give it a try' or 'try it'; 'take a look' but I sometimes joke with 'have a look-see'; 'take a rest' or 'take a break' 取決于你來自哪里。他們經(jīng)常說'have a +動詞(verb)' ，而我們則會說'take a (verb)'或者其他短語。像Have a try（試一下）、have a look（看一下）、have a rest（休息一下）等。雖然它們看起來沒錯，但是聽起來有點不對勁。我想應該要這么說：'give it a try' 或 'try it'，'take a look'，但我有時開玩笑會說'have a look-see'， 'take a rest' 或 'take a break'。 bigbosslaowai Best Korea 12 points·4 days ago As a Chinaman... 作為一個中國佬... kimoriboy 1 point·4 days ago This sounded wrong to my American ear as well but I have heard the same expression as well as 'a Japanese' in China Japan and Indonesia — so it is a fairly widespread phenomenon. 這在我這個美國人的耳中聽起來也是怪怪的，但我也聽過同樣的表達，像在中國、日本、印度尼西亞'a Japanese'的表達——因此，這是一個相當普遍的現(xiàn)象。 |
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來自： 徒步者的收藏 > 《國外網(wǎng)友看》
